Another sense I am gathering from the blogosphere is that understanding the macroecnomy in practice is about understanding savings.
That seems astoundingly obvious on one level as Keynesianism is all about savings; Moneterism is largerly about money and its dual role as a store of value; and Wicksellianism is all about the interest rate.
That’s all fine as a technical matter. However, what I think folks are missing are deep conceptual issues around savings.
At its heart I think it is because people have deep emotional issues attached to savings, so let me tell some personal stories that will help illustrate why I see the difference.
When I was a small kid, maybe five or six – I can’t remember exactly – I was fascinated with savings. In particular, I was fascinated with compound interest because like many math oriented kids I loved the non-intuitive nature of geometric series.
I would sit I the bath calculating how long it would take to reach various levels of wealth given certain rates of savings. This was before common place calculators – at least for someone at my income level – and so I would develop lots of tricks that are now obvious to anyone with basic financial math, like doubling time and reverse amortization to go from a final wealth to a payment.
What ever quirk this is stayed with me the rest of my life so that as I have written before, I spent part of my youth providing financial services to folks who don’t have access to mainstream means.
My infamous – truly ask many of my old friends – miserliness was not limited to just accumulating compound interest. In the 90s when interest rates were low by my standards I did in fact keep thousands of dollars in cash in my sock drawer. No reason. I just did.
For most of my life I have hated material consumption, especially nondurables. I have personally owned one car in my life and that was a hand me down once I started working away from home in a town where I need transportation. Every other vehicle I have driven was someone else’s.
Besides computers, which I was bought once I left the free access of the university computer lab, I have rarely owned major devices. I have never bought a television or home appliance for myself. I once accepted a hand me down toaster oven. I have never bought a piece of furniture for myself.
In college I lived on a mattress on the floor a got from someone who was moving out and a couch a got in return for power washing a ladies basement. I never owned more than one plate, one pot, a pan and a few forks for myself.
The primary meat that I ate one my own was canned tuna and that was back before the health craze made it so damn expensive. At the time you could get them on sale for 25 cents a can.
As I mentioned before I have never had bought health insurance for myself with my own money and until I became much older I never paid for physician or hospital services with my own money. Though I did buy pharmaceuticals.
I say all of this to make it clear that the moral issue of trying to conserve was never a problem. My view has been that material things were a burden and in general even taking care of them took up more time and energy that they were worth.
As such I have never felt the guilt waiting to consume beyond my means and I think that gives me a different perspective on the world.
That is because the guilt seem to cloud the thinking of most people and lead them to conclude that forestalling consumption and worse reducing expenditure is an unmitigated good. To be clear I like to forestall consumption but out of pure selfishness. Not concern for anyone else or “doing the right thing.”
This I believe helps me think more clearly about savings and to understand the inherent difficulties associated with it. Far from being a utopian ideal to which we should all strive, savings is actually logistically difficult. Things rot. The wear out. The become obsolete.
You have to pay to save, and I know because it is a payment I have had to endure. You can loan your money to someone though outside of official channels getting it back is a non-trivial exercise.
People can and do loose your money.
This is actually more common than people stealing your money. Most people will lose your money out of stupidity. Its another story all together but people consistently think that their plans and ideas are good when almost all plans and ideas are shit.
In any case transporting resources into the future is a fundamentally hard proposition when you try to do it yourself. Then you might ask, why is it so easy for society to do it.
Well this was a puzzle for me, but if your interest is peaked by this then you will investigate and notice that it comes down to couple of things:
One, the court and credit system help you to enforce claims against other people: When you loan people money they will probably use it for some stupid idea for the sheer fact that most ideas are stupid. This will result in a loss. However, what you can do is get either the court or the credit system to entice them to give you some of their other stuff instead.
This is why going into debt seem like a bad idea for most people. There is nothing wrong with the debt per se. Its just that the debt empowers them to act on their ideas, which once again are fundamentally stupid.
Without debt they just sit around imagining all the goods things that could happen if they had access to resources but of course none of these good things will actually ever happen no matter how many resources they have access to, so they are better off just living in fantasy land.
Two, buildings, buildings, buildings: Building are like magic for so many reasons. For one thing they deteriorate very slowly. That’s usually your problem with most savings. Things rot. Buildings of course “rot” but they do so very slowly especially if they are made out of concrete or set on a concrete foundation which is a huge freaking deal. Like really a game changer.
Second, is buildings allow for increasing productivity. Its not just that you build a building and then the folks in are more productive. You build a building and then the next building you build right next to it is more productive. Its like freaking magic.
This of course is the origin of urbanization, and it’s a huge deal. It allows your savings to work wonders.
The thing is these golden gooses do not work all the time. For one thing the loaning people money doesn’t work in the aggregate. Not everyone can save by loaning people money. Boom, right there half the ease of savings is gone. What is easy for a person is now hard for a nation or the world.
The second is that buildings run into problems. For one people want to move but moving buildings is hard. For two, people put up all sorts of zoning restrictions. For three congestion ultimately decreases the usefulness of buildings. For four, stupidity rears its head and sometime people build buildings in really unfortunate locations. For five, buildings work best when you can fill them with people and at least in the developed world we are running out of people.
All of this comes to the point that in an aging industrialized country that already really dense savings because really difficult. Nonetheless people are still programed that its an unmitigated good.
This makes it hard for them to accept it when folks like me say, look you need to chill out on the savings. People think I am crazy. Then when their savings yield no return they get all upset like they have been screwed, when in fact this is just life.
This phenomenon is so pervasive that whole economies go into recession in part because people cannot wrap their minds around the concept that savings is logistically difficult and that if you do too much of it you will run into to trouble.
Those with money insist that the government hold steady or in some cases even reduce the quantity of money in circulation so that money becomes more scarce and it appears that they are becoming wealthier when in fact they are just taking an ever increasing portion of a shrinking pie.
The problem is just that savings is logistically difficult yet people cannot seem to accept this.
15 comments
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Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 7:24 am
Sigve
I get your point, and think it’s an important point to get out there. It’s a tough point to get across as it is counter-intuitive. Kind of like, “spend your income and you’ll get get more in the future”, the first thing people can think is “if I spend all my money now, I will have none left afterwards”.
How do you reply to this?
People who spend their money now and fear for loosing their jobs, because if they do spend their money and get fired, they won’t have any money left, and be without a job.
It’s like the prisoners dilemma or some other game-theory plot i can’t think of, and at the same time, sort of a fallacy of composition (micro vs. macro rationality). I don’t have the words for it exactly, but do you know what I mean?
How do you solve this?
Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 7:56 am
Crandall
…sorry, I do NOT get your point.
Please state it concisely in one sentence, for us dummies.
Your post is much too long & screams for self-editing. Yes, it’s just an informal blog post — but it would have taken less time to organize your thoughts (point) to begin with.
Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 8:07 am
Sigve
Let me try to clear it up, hope you follow 🙂
i) Keynesianism is about savings, this post is about savings. Does savings equal investment? I.e. What is happening to your savings, what use does society as a whole get from your savings? Is it used for profitable investments or is it idle cash, for instance.
ii) “Moneterism is largerly about money and its dual role as a store of value” – Savings is a way to store value in the form of money. Think of a bank deposit, that’s someone saving, and it’s someones value stored away for future consumption.
iii) “Wicksellianism is all about the interest rate”. – What determines the profitability of storing away “value in the form of money” in a bank/gov’t obligation etc.? It is the interest rate, i.e. your rate of return you get for storing you paper money in a bank or some. Higher interest rate induces more people to “store value” in interest bearing papers.
Hope this clarified it to you.
Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 8:07 am
Cowardly Lion
I think I understand what you’re talking about. On a conceptual level, if you really step back, it seems absurd that people expect that working now and saving money means they can get more stuff in the future than they would by spending it now.
If nothing else, there will be more people in the future, and it’s not a given that there will be proportionally more or less stuff at a specific point in the future.
In terms of exchanging labor for stuff, it seems absurd to expect that my labor in 2012 will automatically garner as much stuff in 2022 as someone’s labor in 2022 (though it’s not that simple… if I do a good job saving, I can get stuff in 2012 AND 2022 and not need to exert as much labor in 2022. But still in that scenario, it would be absurd to imagine that the aggregate across 2012 and 2022 is automatically what I would get in 2012).
Also, the idea that individual projects are stupid and yet we are quite productive in aggregate reminds me of Steven Randy’s Waldman’s blog posts on the opacity of finance. Have you seen those?
Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 8:09 am
Bob Dobalina
t people consistently think that their plans and ideas are good when almost all plans and ideas are shit.
This is brilliant.
Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 8:27 am
Axel
Conversely to Crandall I can’t help loving this post. To me it’s brilliantly pedagogical and insightful.
The main point is: saving (ie to transfer real wealth from now into the future) is not easy.
The way we did it at start was trough promises. This is why and when the ‘moral’ thing came into play. Even in a barter economy you need trust and promises to exchange. Therefore, you need to enforce promises: no wonder the word debt has the same latin origin (debere) as duty.
But, this ‘promise enforcement’ technology is far from six sigma ! With the money and then fiat money, the technology improved and transformed into credit and modern banking (in this respect the US chapter 11 bankruptcy law is a small step for bankers but a big leap for mankind, acknowledging life is more important than promises) The last version of this techology involves securitization and collateralization, ie the shadow banking system.
All the improvements of the technology are not aimed at improving the return on savings, but to manage promise break better and provide a proxy for human dream of a risk free savings technology.
Now, Karl, what you should really go for is a time travelling machine !
Axel
PS. I’m really impressed by your arithmetic abilities when you were 6. I have a daughter who is 5.5 and who barely knows what a multiplication is and I haven’t really learned geometric series before highschool…
Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 10:41 am
Rob
Finally, I understand why there’s an equation out there that says “savings = investment”.
Thanks!
Wednesday ~ April 18th, 2012 at 2:26 pm
Lord
There are two common ideas around savings, pre-industrial hoarding of precious metals that store value ostensibly with no gain or loss though variability with what it could buy as nature delivered plenty or scarcity, and industrial accumulation that produces growth from greater productivity and larger populations. When recession strikes, people revert from believing in growth to hoarding knowing that their past good fortune was a fluke and they will be doomed to stagnation or decline. They are right, but early.
Friday ~ April 20th, 2012 at 8:00 am
Michael
“Those with money insist that the government hold steady or in some cases even reduce the quantity of money in circulation so that money becomes more scarce and it appears that they are becoming wealthier when in fact they are just taking an ever increasing portion of a shrinking pie.”
If I have money, why would I not want “an ever increasing portion of a shrinking pie”? Don’t people tend to view their level of wealth not in absolute terms but rather in terms of their share of the pie?
Friday ~ April 20th, 2012 at 8:07 am
curtd59
Except that the data on millionaires is in, and has been for two decades:
Increase saving, reduce consumption, and you can exit the market, by lending money to other people to use, who do consume, and don’t save.
Some of us exit the market by underconsumption.
Some of us exit the market by rent seeking
Some of us exit the market by joining the government, or the military.
Some of us exit the market by dependency through the government
Some of us exit the market by saving.
Some of us just stay in the market until we die.
Some of us fight in the market and save, while the majority seek rents against it — and win and lose.
The problem is:
a) everyone wants the fruits of the market
b) no one actually wants to do the hard work of participating in it
c) everyone wants to exit the market
As someone who was poor as a child, but wealthy as an adult, I understand the entire spectrum. It’s a division of knowledge and labor. Some people cannot
You should just take up MMT. WIth MMT savings isn’t necessary.
If you argue that inflation would reign, and that innovation would become unprofitable, then you’re back to becoming an austrian.
The problem with your line of reasoning is that it is consistent with all progressive reasoning: the desire to create an ideal type, a norm, a common behavior under the psycho-chemical influence of the false consensus bias, instead of a division of knowledge, labor and production in real time.
You need to spend some time understanding the problem of production cycles in a competitive environment. Keynesian aggregates obscure the intertemporal settlement process.
I finally understand the suite of errors you’re making. You need to move into the MMT camp. That’s your natural home.
But thank you for being the only honest progressive intellectual in America.
Curt
Friday ~ April 20th, 2012 at 10:01 am
J.V. Dubois
I like this post. A lot. And I also think that savings is a key concept for people understanding macro and any inter-temporal issue. I would just add that there are two interesting things abour savings
1) Virtually everything is saving in small time-frame. It is because saving is defined as everything that is produced and not consumed/sold in a given time (usually year) If you go into a shop and buy canned tuna, it can last for next two years. This counts as saving to me. You can even say that that tuna can produces convenience service for you. Since you know that you have an iron reserve of tuna cans, you feel much safer and better in your life.
2) Many other things are savings. Your new TV produces “watching services” for a long time. Instead of you going to cinema every time you want to watch a movie, you can use your TV. The same goes for a your car or a book. Car gives you transportation services, a book provides you with entertainment/education services.
3) Also in the end, every saving is spending, because eventually every investment is ultimately a consumption. All things rot and decay and is ultimately destroyed in the process of providing consumption. With one important difference investment into new technology or information that can be multiplied and used freely and that is not subject to decay in the same way other things are.
4) There is no inherent “virtue” in spending/saving itself. However one may say that there can be a virtue in terms of on what you buy or in what you invest compared to alternatives. One may say that it is stupid to spend on designer clothes instead of buying a new television. One may say that people should not buy any designer clothes in general because they are just a waste of resources that could be put into another use, such as building larger houses that will offer better sheltering services.
But in the end this means you are just moralizing about consumer preferences. You may object that people are pushed to such destructive consumption/investment patterns by psychological manipulation (AKA advertisement) by delusions and overconfidence (caused by availability of credit) etc. But in the end it is just normative judgement. It is not scientific to say that “consumption is worse than saving”.
Friday ~ April 20th, 2012 at 2:09 pm
jj
There are significant forms of saving other than buildings, though that is one great example. Consider R&D, capital equipment, resource stockpiling, infrastructure, etc. The return on these should leave you at par at a minimum, though of course it gets harder to earn positive returns the higher your expectations are.
Friday ~ April 20th, 2012 at 8:00 pm
Chris
Loved it.
Sunday ~ April 22nd, 2012 at 9:20 pm
Sergio Telles
What is MMT?
Saturday ~ April 28th, 2012 at 9:37 am
Andy Harless, on recessions « Shewing the fly
[…] Twitter. Here’s a post from him back in November, making the same point. Here is Karl Smith on the logistical difficulties of saving, my favourite post of the year. Like this:LikeBe the first to like this post. Categories: […]